The fact that police officers in Scotland have been given the rise in full when their colleagues in England, Wales and Northern Ireland haven't is a disgrace

yet another instance of how Scotland is able to benefit on the back of funding from central government.

Much has been said about there being a postcode lottery when it comes to treatment on the NHS. I am getting fed up of hearing about how much better the terms and conditions the Scots get compaired with us who generate the income for them to spend.

Maybe if they had to be self supporting things would be different, and we would be able to pay our police and nurses better pay.

hope there's plenty of tooled-up ex-miners there to welcome em.

Posted by: Paul G, york on 10:32am today hope there's plenty of tooled-up ex-miners there to welcome em.

I remember what you are on about. A number of attempts to overthrow lawfully elected British governments using the economic power of coal, on the instructions of the Kremlin, and which were financially supported by East Germany and Libya.

If you want to blame anyone, blame Arthur Scargill and the idiots who followed him, not the police for upholding the law and preventing widespread and violent intimidation.

Its a disgrace. Why should councillors get a rise of 11% and the police get a pittance?

bjb wrote:

The fact that police officers in Scotland have been given the rise in full when their colleagues in England, Wales and Northern Ireland haven't is a disgrace

yet another instance of how Scotland is able to benefit on the back of funding from central government. Much has been said about there being a postcode lottery when it comes to treatment on the NHS. I am getting fed up of hearing about how much better the terms and conditions the Scots get compaired with us who generate the income for them to spend. Maybe if they had to be self supporting things would be different, and we would be able to pay our police and nurses better pay.

You have been reading the daily mail too much mate. What about all the oil the english have taken out of scotland over they years? It supported the whole united kingdom whilst Thatcher was shutting everything down in the 80's.

"If you want to blame anyone, blame Arthur Scargill and the idiots who followed him, not the police for upholding the law and preventing widespread and violent intimidation."

The idiocy was shared by the government as well, both sides were spoiling for a fight.
I was working underground for a private contractor on the Selby coalfield before the strike, and had much sympathy for the NUM men, they knew what would happen to their communities when the pits were closed.

The miners strike ended almost 23years ago where does it fit in to today's issues except in the petty minds of bigots stuck in a time warp

"This will only add to the feelings of outrage anger and de-motivation being felt by police officers in North Yorkshire as a result of the betrayal by this Government."

Exactly what the miners were feeling in 1984.

Posted by: Nimby, York on 12:49pm today
The miners strike ended almost 23years ago where does it fit in to today's issues except in the petty minds of bigots stuck in a time warp

Correct.

I wonder whether andyb has any direct knowledge of just how miners were feeling

"This will only add to the feelings of outrage anger and de-motivation being felt by police officers in North Yorkshire as a result of the betrayal by this Government."

Exactly what the miners were feeling in 1984.

I have and I know that the vast majority of miners would have quietly gone back to work but were over-ruled by a violent vociferous minority which managed to destroy the industry by refusing to accept some realities. Even striking miners were dealt very shabbily by the NUM bully boys. Don't take what is printed in newspapers are accurate.
In any event this is not the same issue the police are facing.

Well, I'm with the cops and their protest on this issue.


They have been appallingly treated and betrayed by a morally bankrupt Home Secretary just because they are a soft touch and cannot take any industrial action.


And for the sceptics out there, I am not a cop!

Just a further thought:

Police Officers get 2.5% from 1st December.

PCSO's get 2.5% from 1st September.


Great move for harmony and teamwork!

Nimby wrote:
I wonder whether andyb has any direct knowledge of just how miners were feeling

"This will only add to the feelings of outrage anger and de-motivation being felt by police officers in North Yorkshire as a result of the betrayal by this Government."

Exactly what the miners were feeling in 1984.

I have and I know that the vast majority of miners would have quietly gone back to work but were over-ruled by a violent vociferous minority which managed to destroy the industry by refusing to accept some realities. Even striking miners were dealt very shabbily by the NUM bully boys. Don't take what is printed in newspapers are accurate.
In any event this is not the same issue the police are facing.

I`m not looking for an argument, but as I said I was working on the Yorkshire coalfield both before and after the strike.

Most of the men at our pit were solidly for the strike, as were those at the other selby pits. They didn`t need any bullying to come out.

You have been reading the daily mail too much mate. What about all the oil the english have taken out of scotland over they years? It supported the whole united kingdom whilst Thatcher was shutting everything down in the 80's.

What is it with some peolpe that they have to drag up the Daily Mail thing. is this supposed to be an insult, or what? I don't buy a daily paper.

It is British oil not Scottish. It was developed by British companies. The Scots think it is OK to use this as an argument now, when for many decades before anyone was aware of it's existance they were happy to be supported by the British taxpayer.

Most of the men at our pit were solidly for the strike, as were those at the other selby pits. They didn`t need any bullying to come out.

It was the reality elsewhere, below is as I remember it whilst protecting female officer workers and managers from a vicious and violent mob -

Nimby wrote:
I have and I know that the vast majority of miners would have quietly gone back to work but were over-ruled by a violent vociferous minority which managed to destroy the industry by refusing to accept some realities. Even striking miners were dealt very shabbily by the NUM bully boys. Don't take what is printed in newspapers are accurate.
In any event this is not the same issue the police are facing.

But it's history I'm merely trying to put the record straight on, and d@mn all to do with police pay today.

read-all-about-it wrote:
Just a further thought: Police Officers get 2.5% from 1st December. PCSO's get 2.5% from 1st September. Great move for harmony and teamwork!

2.5% of f*** all...is f*** all.

"But it's history I'm merely trying to put the record straight on,"

Perhaps you should join Akuma the all knowing on Mount Olympus.

I hope they're not going to march through Parliament Square, they should know that any form of protest whatsoever is banned in that particular exclusion zone. You can get well beaten up in the back a van for marching there don't you know.
Wonder if the riot police will be there to keep them all in line and give 'em a bit of a recreational kicking?
Maybe arrest them for some ridiculous made-up offence using the new "terrorism" laws because they were carrying a tin of coke or a pair of gloves or some other dangerous items?
And the surveillance teams, will they be filming the protest and keeping files on prominent marchers? And yet confiscating marchers' cameras under some dodgy "evidence act"? Will they lie about the numbers attending to make it seem like just one or two freaks and a clown? Will the tabloids report that vicious hooligans hell-bent on crazed terrorism rampaged through the streets whether or not that actually happens?
Questions, questions...

andyb wrote:
"But it's history I'm merely trying to put the record straight on," Perhaps you should join Akuma the all knowing on Mount Olympus.

LOL love last 4 lines. definatly comment of the week

Excellent comment, TooRad. As an addition, perhaps any miners attending the strike can attack the police, and when the retaliation comes,have the BBC reverse the sequence of events to make the police look like the aggressors. This would be a nostalgic tribute to how the miners at Orgreave were treated. I've mentioned Bemused's Little Orphan Annie view of police conduct before, and he has been true to form on this thread.

1984: Miners and police clash at Orgreave

Police have used riot gear for the first time since the miners' strike began three months ago.

Forming the biggest picket of the strike so far, at least 5,000 miners gathered outside Orgreave coking plant near Sheffield.

He stood among his men as hundreds of police formed lines around the miners to try to stop them getting to the coke lorries.

Trouble broke out when pickets spotted the first convoy at about 0900 BST. They surged forward and there were running battles with police on horseback.

Smoke bombs, bricks, stones and ball-bearings were thrown and fencing torn up. Ambulance men wearing protective headgear led casualties away to safety.

Both sides pinned the blame on each other.

"We've had riot shields, we've had riot gear, we've had police on horseback charging into our people, we've had people hit with truncheons and people kicked to the ground." said Mr Scargill.

"The intimidation and the brutality that has been displayed are something reminiscent of a Latin American state."

South Yorkshire Chief Constable Peter Wright said officers had to wear protective helmets and use shields to allow the gates of the factory to remain open.

Mr Scargill is hoping to repeat the success of 12 years ago, when his pickets stopped coke deliveries at Saltley gasworks in Birmingham in his struggle to improve the lot of British miners.

But this time he seems to have failed - the 34 lorry drivers today managed to make two journeys unhindered and say they are determined to continue the coke runs.

It must be forgotten that the miners were led by communists getting their instructions from the Kremlin, and being bankrolled by East Germany and Col Gadaffi.

The coal industry had been pretty much destroyed by the NUM anyway. NUM wage demands meant British coal could not compete with imports.

It must be forgotten

NOT be forgotten!!

What really must not be forgotten is there was a concerted smear campaign being carried out by Thatcher and her cronies, with help from MI5, and the right wing media. What must also not be forgotten is that many police officers attended strike areas minus their badges, and were acting as Maggie's personal storm troopers.

and were acting as Maggie's personal storm troopers.

Otherwise known as the SPG.

What must also not be forgotten is that many police officers attended strike areas minus their badges, and were acting as Maggie's personal storm troopers.

Rubbish your previous posts show you to be virulently anti-police, ant-establishment, and any sort of authority.

Don't re-write history which is in any case irrelevant to the story.

Bemused wrote:

What must also not be forgotten is that many police officers attended strike areas minus their badges, and were acting as Maggie's personal storm troopers.

Rubbish your previous posts show you to be virulently anti-police, ant-establishment, and any sort of authority. Don't re-write history which is in any case irrelevant to the story.

Bemused - if anyone is re-writing history it is you. The miners strike was just one of the factors that affected my view of the police - and I suspect this is true of many people who bothered with the facts at that time rather than the tabloid-led distortions that were prevalent. As for my being 'against any form of authority'- sheer lunacy on your part,and I defy you to prove otherwise.

09/04/1984: Dozens arrested in picket line violence
About 100 pickets have been arrested during violent clashes with police outside two working coal pits in Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire.

The so-called "flying pickets" - striking miners bussed in from other parts of the country - targeted Cresswell colliery in Derbyshire and Babbington in Nottinghamshire.

Figures suggest 46 pits are still working out of a total of 176 across the country. Miners are fighting plans to close 20 pits.

Police at Cresswell say they were taken by surprise when around 1,000 pickets descended on the colliery.

Six officers and a miner were injured in what a spokesman described as "the worst violence we have had in Derbyshire since the strike began".

Several cars belonging to working miners had their windows smashed. One miner who apparently defied the pickets and went into work had the windows of his home smashed.

21/09/1984: Maltby picket sparks violence
Police and miners have clashed at a pit in South Yorkshire in one of the biggest mass pickets since the strike began.

At least 6,000 miners tried to stop NUM members working for a construction company entering Maltby Colliery near Rotherham.

The men are working for an outside company but were required to become members of the NUM for the duration of their contract, and the miners say they should observe picket lines.

There was a tense stand-off early in the morning as the pit-workers arrived to prevent seven construction workers entering the colliery.
Jeering
They were met by a force of 700 police officers with 500 reinforcements waiting close by - all dressed in full riot gear.

Two pickets and three officers were injured in the violence, and five miners were arrested on breach of the peace offences.

Some of the strikers tore bricks off a nearby wall to throw them at the police lines and jeered when ordered to stop.

One of the missiles hit a policeman, dislocating his shoulder.

The senior officer in charge, Chief Superintendent John Nesbitt said the picketing had been "very, very heavy and intense".

He told reporters the miners had fired an air rifle at them and used catapults to shoot marbles.

But very few if any of the police officers involved will still be serving, so it's d@mn all to do with the story!

Bemused wrote:
'But very few if any of the police officers involved will still be serving, so it's d@mn all to do with the story!'

-And yet you lost very little time in replying to Paul G's reference to the miners' strike - so don't take that attitude. Now - about my being against all forms of authority.....??

I'll take whatever attitude I like, and I am not justifying myself to people like you! Now go sulk.

Bemused wrote:
I'll take whatever attitude I like, and I am not justifying myself to people like you! Now go sulk.

...He says sulkily.
My God - Harry Roberts certainly had the right idea!

Oops - scrub the last line of my previous comment - way,way over the top!

My God - Harry Roberts certainly had the right idea!

QED, no wonder you thought better of it!

My God - Harry Roberts certainly had the right idea!

QED, no wonder you thought better of it!

You may yet convince me to change my mind again about my last remark. It would be nice to know how I am against all form of authority, otherwise I would have to conclude that you are still in a sulk.