A request to see "relevant extracts of police officers' notebooks, files and documents that relate to the apprehension and detention of vagrants" has also been lodged under Freedom of Information Act.

The letter goes on to say that lawyers are "currently advising our client as to whether any claim against either North Yorkshire Police or the City of York Council can be made with respect to a breach of duty to prevent actionable loss resulting as a consequence of a failure to address this problem properly".

Mark wrote:
What a bunch of mean spirited individuals some of you and Mr Hattersley are.

Many people on the streets begging have no real option - and have real problems of drug abuse, alcoholism, abuse and mental health issues. Does anyone really believe the Daily Mail-esque notion that people choose begging as a lifestyle? Do you really think that people are willing to 'hand in' their self-respect and dignity for a few quid in coppers?

Less than a year ago I was made homeless because my life collapsed due to severe depression and which also saw me abusing alcohol as a form of self-medication. I am an intelligent professional person with a background in social policy analysis and even I found it almost impossible to negotiate the complexities of the "system" - the Council were useless and the benefits agency didn't even merit that rating. I managed with the help of friends, family and the charity Mind to escape, but what hope does someone with less social and educational advantage than I have?

Some of you need to wake up to the reality of life in the first decade of the 21st century!

Many people on the streets begging have no real option

Well done Mr H !!!! why is not made illegal to beg for money ??

Jo wrote:
Just wondering how you can all be so knowledgeable and have such strong opinions about this subject. Do you know what percentage of beggars are "career beggars" and what percentage are genuinely homeless? Did you conduct surveys or have you researched this in any way, or are you all just armchair experts? Do you think these people choose to be like this, that they have no real reason for being homeless, that they are all of sound mind and body? Jeebus, where's your compassion? Or at least if not compassion, why don't you try to ascertain some FACTS before you start having a go at these people. I have no idea how many are genuinely homeless (for whatever reason) and how many are fraudsters. I'd love to know where you're all getting your information from.

We need a stratergy for moving forward

Mark wrote:
What a bunch of mean spirited individuals some of you and Mr Hattersley are. Many people on the streets begging have no real option - and have real problems of drug abuse, alcoholism, abuse and mental health issues. Does anyone really believe the Daily Mail-esque notion that people choose begging as a lifestyle? Do you really think that people are willing to 'hand in' their self-respect and dignity for a few quid in coppers? Less than a year ago I was made homeless because my life collapsed due to severe depression and which also saw me abusing alcohol as a form of self-medication. I am an intelligent professional person with a background in social policy analysis and even I found it almost impossible to negotiate the complexities of the "system" - the Council were useless and the benefits agency didn't even merit that rating. I managed with the help of friends, family and the charity Mind to escape, but what hope does someone with less social and educational advantage than I have? Some of you need to wake up to the reality of life in the first decade of the 21st century!

Jo wrote:
Just wondering how you can all be so knowledgeable and have such strong opinions about this subject. Do you know what percentage of beggars are "career beggars" and what percentage are genuinely homeless? Did you conduct surveys or have you researched this in any way, or are you all just armchair experts? Do you think these people choose to be like this, that they have no real reason for being homeless, that they are all of sound mind and body? Jeebus, where's your compassion? Or at least if not compassion, why don't you try to ascertain some FACTS before you start having a go at these people. I have no idea how many are genuinely homeless (for whatever reason) and how many are fraudsters. I'd love to know where you're all getting your information from.

very concerned wrote:
Big bucket of cold water over the beggar and the dogs, would soon move them on. Problem solved!!

Beggars use dogs because the Public will give money in the vain hope the dog will be fed. The RSPCA should remove the dogs due to neglect.

Billy Boy wrote:
Good old bemused, knocking the Police Force, I am sure you was once a Copper, dressed in your cape with your truncheon by your side and whistle in your top pocket, or was you a failed copper who was thrown out for some reason. anyway let them beg, you dont have to give them money!!

If we were civilised then there would be no need for begging (genuine or otherwise).

beebop wrote:
Sorry, have I just been transported back to Dickensian England? Angry rich bloke, lacking any shred of social conscience gets fed up of seeing scruffy poor people near his shop etc. My heart bleeds. I vote we have a campaign to rid the city of vermin instead - starting with Mr Hattersley.

misskittie wrote:
There are two very good points here. Firstly Mr H is a blatant fat cat just looking after his own self interest OR blaming others for his failing business. Either way he hardly has the state of York centre in his heart when his love of the £ is taking up so much room. Equally, there is a problem with career beggars in York. You can tell which ones they are, real homeless carry their lives with them, not a paid for Pret bagel and a Nokia. If there was more support for projects such are ARC there would be somewhere to drop people off at when they are arrested. Instead they spend a night in the cells before being turfed back out onto the streets with less hope and a criminal record. I would suggest that Mr H does the decent thing and convinces the retailers which are apparently backing his stance to get their hands in their pockets for a little bit of charity. When ARC etc are fully financed with a decent number of overnight beds, THEN he can moan about the number of beggers and the lack of action. He need to STFU and lead from the front instead of being yet another whinging local sliming off to the Press to sort out their problems. And before this board crashes with people rushing to flame me down, YES the government could deal with it but that would mean your taxes go up. Perhaps people with a bit more money, those earning £100k and up, can spread the wealth for a change instead of making the police his private army.

tonesview wrote:
Shopkeepers get the hosepipes out and hose down the pavements regularly, theres no law against keeping your path clean and nobody likes a wet bum.

Mr Hattersley's love of York extends to dragging York City Centre and its hospitality offering in to the 20th Century

Posted by: Billy Boy, York on 4:13pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Going to complain now Bemused, get me thrown off or my comment tken away

Miss Amelia Rate wrote:
I don't believe there is any real need to "beg" in this country, no matter what your problems there is help available, though sometimes difficult to access.
Good for Mr Hattersley for making a stand and forcing the council and police to do what they are supposed to do.

Gardener wrote:
In Brazil they have special squads that deal with these kind of people, they don't return once dealt with... but in soft touch Britain, dustbin of Europe it's a different story becasue they have 'rights' which are better apparently than those of the law abiding tax payer.

Bemused wrote:

Well done Mr H !!!! why is not made illegal to beg for money ??

It has been since the Vagrancy Act 1824, and probably even before that. What we need today is a police force to enforce it.

Yes, begging and gathering alms is indeed illegal under the Vagrancy Act 1824. However what Bemused is failing to tell people is that under law the only punishment which the courts can hand out for this offence is a fine. So you take someone with no money who is begging, lock them up and put the before the court and the most they will get is a fine..... I wonder how they'll get the money to pay for that??

Also my understanding of the legal system, limited as it is, tells me that if a begger is arrested unless they are drunk, given that the evidence against them is police evidence and they dont need interviewing they will not be held for any length of time in a cell. Otherwise this would be unlawful and North Yorkshire Police would be liable to get sued......

If it was a choice between the beggars and the fascist morons on here i'd choose the beggars everytime, at least the beggars are living in real life and not some fantasy world!!!